top of page

13. Janan Sarwar

Pharmacist, Coach, Entrepreneur

Eric: Hey there everyone. I am your host, Eric Mueller, and welcome back to The Eric Mueller Show, a podcast where we explore what makes any successful person's inner clock tick today. On the show, we'll be chatting with an inspirational female entrepreneur.


Janan Sarwar has over 15 years of experience in the pharmacy world. She's currently the senior director of the print and digital book publishing department at the American Pharmacists Association. She's also a medical writer, speaker and pharmacy career coach. After graduating from the University of North Carolina with a Doctorate in Pharmacy, she then pursued a fellowship in educational technology, research and development.


Janan has served as an editor of over 25 textbooks and innovative digital publishing projects. She's passionate about creating engaging resources for healthcare providers and patients, that help improve medication, use and access to care for all populations. In her positions, she advocates for empowering women and those from culturally, [00:01:00] linguistically and racially diverse backgrounds. She believes in progress over perfection, keeping things simple, with minimalism and the concept of being fearless. Throughout her life journey, she has also discovered that a failure to plan means planning to fail. Let's head on over to the interview.


[EDM music begins playing and then fades-out]


Eric: Alright, welcome back to The Eric Mueller Show, a podcast where we explore, what makes any successful person's inner clock keep driven toward success. Today on the show, we have another pharmacist. We have Janan Sarwar. Welcome to the show.


Janan: Hey, thanks for having me.


Eric: Absolutely, it's a pleasure to have you on here. I really am excited to dive into what makes your inner clock tick towards success. And really kind of tease out how you've taken a [00:02:00] more non-traditional route with your pharmacy career, namely doing some freelance medical writing for GoodRx, currently coaching for The Happy PharmD, you know, a website that a lot of pharmacists you look up to as far as how to create a career that feels fulfilled for them, doing some publishing work for APhA. So Janan, how did you go about pursuing those opportunities? Do you have any tips for other people that are yearning to take more of that non-traditional career path?


Janan: Absolutely, you know, my biggest tip is to say, take risks, put yourself out there. I was ready in every one of these examples to hear a no but it's really more surprising that the more I kind of explain some of the unique skills I had, each of these things that you just described medical writing or coaching and publishing. It was really interesting to hear whether it was during an interview or someone even saying hey Janan, have you considered this? [00:03:00] And talking and sharing my what made me unique and stand out. That's what I really think contributed to my success to get me in these positions.


You know, find things that you're passionate about, do it. So for me, prior to pharmacy school and during pharmacy school, I did photography. Completely unrelated to Pharmacy, but it taught me a lot of skills that I still use today to the point that, you know, I used photography as a hobby and I learned about it, learned to network with people and had a small photography business. Use the money that I earned literally to reinvest in myself, to get more gear and things like that, which was interesting and it was from there that I became kind of the, the webmaster, the photographer of all these different organizations within pharmacy school. By doing that. I had this experience in web working with web, the [00:04:00] internet and that kind of led into what I did a fellowship after pharmacy school. Very non-traditional and I just kind of took a leap and it was in educational technology and kind of what I did there led to the position I got in at APhA where for the past seven years, my full-time job has been to direct the content and the development of materials, whether it's print, books, online resources, and everything for student pharmacists and pharmacists and it helps that I'm a, you know, pharmacist myself.


How this kind of, you know, went on to freelance writing and coaching is that I was able to say, hey I've done so much editing along the way in my publishing career. I should be a writer too and that's how I got that position, and coaching, well, I kind of know a lot of people in this pharmacy space [00:05:00] and world, and I love sharing people on. I'm motivated by that. It's part of what gets me up in the morning. So that's how I got that.


So my biggest advice is if you can hear from my story and my passion is I just kind of tried different things. Put myself out there and stood out. You never know what opportunity you can take that can give you skills that you can transfer later and skills that will help you get the next position you didn't even imagine.


Eric: Yeah. And in preparation for the interview you mentioned that you embrace the getting things done philosophy, would you care to elaborate on that and its impact it’s had on your life and career thus far?


Janan: Yeah, so you know, I don't know if you've heard of GTD for short, Getting Things Done. It's really simply stated. It's just a productivity system, and it's my personal productivity system when it comes to keeping track of what I have to do for work, for home, [00:06:00] for all the extra things. As I mentioned, I'm up to a lot, right? And, you know, you have to keep track of everything. It's a time management system essentially stating that, you know, if something's on your mind, it can fill your mind. We've kind of normalized, I'm sure. You know, we, all of us, anyone listening I'm sure has a calendar. And people book times on their calendars, and you know, they go by their calendar. Okay, I have this thing to do and that and that's normal to be able to turn and look at your calendar to say, I don't have to remember that at, you know, 11 o'clock, next Thursday I have this appointment, your calendar does that for you.


GTD, takes that same idea of, okay they're all these things, whether it's in the course of a day or in your life. Whether it's hey I've got to put laundry from the washing machine to the dryer to, I have to cook something specific for [00:07:00] a meal, or I have to get this thing done for work. GTD is all about removing all of these things that are on our mind and putting it in a system so that you are able to truly get things done in an effective way. Its impact on my life and career is that I have been able to balance my home, my work. I'm not perfect, but you know, although I'm constantly bombarded with thoughts, and I agree to do so many things as we all do. I have a system that helps make sure I'm following through and following up on things and that's what GTD means for me.


Eric: Are you a big fan of checking things off of lists? I know that's something I really like even if there's something that I have already done, if I have a list of things that I need to do for the day, I'll even add that on my list just so I can check it off. Just feels good.


Janan: Yes, I love it. And, you know, you [00:08:00] can definitely do that with GTD their different systems. I more recently for the past few years have been using an online site called todoist. It's unaffiliated with the GTD thing, but they literally, it's ways to make multiple to-do lists that is electronic.


And you know what I like about it, I like the physical checking off as well like on a regular notebook, I can relate, but even on that check mark like the ding that, you know, ding I've checked it off because it's this is human nature as well. And a little thing I do talk about in coaching when I coach people as a pharmacy career coach, we get dopamine, you know, We have this joy when we have checked off something from our list, it's a real phenomenon.


So you know, as you accomplish your goals, no matter how big or small. So to your point, Eric of, even if you've [00:09:00] already done it, going back and checking it off, it makes you feel good. It's a real. It's a real feeling and, you know, I totally can relate to you on that. So yeah, if you like checklist look into GTD.


Eric: I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna look up that website as well. I think that like you said about the calendar. I mean even even with just this podcast, using something like Calendly has helped take so much off of just back and forth emails to schedule things, and I can really start to get things done more efficiently that way.


Janan: Absolutely. Embrace technology when it can for sure.


Eric: That's right. And so in the operation of that photography business that you had, so it's based on the timeline, it looked like, did you start that while you were attending the University of Tennessee?


Janan: That's correct. Yeah. So I was a UT Volunteer in Knoxville, Tennessee. And that's one of those times, I was studying biochemistry. Earlier than that, I had made a lot of friends. I thought I was going to be an engineer. My father is an engineer [00:10:00] and he's a professor. And so, I met people in those engineering classes, I initially took that really loved how things worked and photography for example, and so those friends kind of got me into it. And Other friends that I had. And so we join some pre, you know, photography clubs and you know it was really neat. There were experts in Knoxville that would come and I could rent, you could actually rent really expensive equipment from the library of the University. Canon cameras, and Nikon and lenses. And you know, you name it. And yeah that's when it all started back in undergrad.


And I mean I kind of think back and reflect on those moments, it's such a great time when you when you're exploring a new hobby which I continue to love to do now, now that I have young children of my own. You know, that experience of trying something [00:11:00] new, learning and doing it in a group setting where you're working with others. So invigorating.


I love that group mentality and one of the things I just reflect on because you asked thinking about Knoxville is that we, some expert photographers from that area through that through the club, being in that pre, you know, that photography, that interest group. And you know, that's it's just so such another feeling of like, being able to be a novice and work with an expert, that is an expert in their craft, really inspiring and motivating. And again, thanks for actually jogging that memory back for me for Knoxville.


Eric: Yeah, absolutely. It just inspired me to read that and see, you know, how you take it at passion and just start to work on it. Start to make progress and get things done with that, and it seems like it directly ties in with how you started with the American Pharmacists Association. Like, you mentioned the content development being [00:12:00] the associate director there I would say that, you know, when you apply for that position and I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that your, your application would have jumped off the page to me if I was looking at it. Seeing that you've already had this business running, you know, what would be a Content business? Do you think that that helped you in that way to get that position to start off with APhA?


Janan: That definitely helped. What also helped I think in either in my cover letter when it came to the interview was just too to be able to illustrate that what I would be doing in that position, and that new position, this is again, getting in my career coach mentality, what I try to help people do, but really did work for me, is put yourself, I put myself in the lens of this is what I would bring to your organization from my experience and this is what I've done.


So, you know, I was able to say in my interview, I remember speaking to my who's now my mentor, but my previous boss [00:13:00] what I would be able to do at apha is literally an extension of what I've done on a different scale, in my past.


Eric: Yeah.


Janan: And yes, you know whether and I think that being here, it's very powerful to be able to either illustrate that on your resume and your cover letter or being able to speak to, hey, I've done this. This is what I can do, here's what I can add, here are some other unique things I've done and some ideas I have for you based on what I see that you're doing, if you're open to it.


That has been in every position I've had, and everyone, I talk to when, you know, even now when I'm not even looking for anything new, I'm trying to not add anything more. There's a power of saying no, right. Because for every thing you say yes to, you probably have to say no to something else because there are only so many hours of the day, but what I've learned is that, you as an individual can always offer something, whether it's coming, you know, [00:14:00] when we talk about the word networking or, you know, connecting with others. It's really interesting when you can provide your perspective and then you know, for me now it's more of like I'm sharing these ideas and I'm kind of walking away like hey this is something cool you might want to consider, I'm not the person to do it but you know, have you thought about this?


It's a great skill to hone as well. I think that that will help you. If we talk, we go back to talking about standing out in an application or, you know, when it comes to starting new things, being an entrepreneur. Ways to stand out ways to be noticed, is the fact that you're open, you're giving and you have innovation. That's what Innovation is. That's what I, you know, attribute to a little bit of what got me to where I am today to.


Eric: Yeah, let's dive a little deeper into coaching and so it seems that coaching is a big aspect of your life. I mean, you’er career coach for The Happy PharmD right now, but you mentioned you have a business coach, [00:15:00] you have a health coach, you’re a mentor to others in your field. Your mom is a therapist, and she's been a role model for you in terms of being a strong, proponent of mental health. So what is the meaning of coaching to you? What, in your opinion, why does everyone need to have a coach in their lives?


Janan: This coaching is like a secret. I didn't even know myself. And it's, it's unlocked so many things. Coaching is development. It's when someone experienced, you know, is cheering you on, they have the specific training. So why do I have a varied one? Why do I have someone for health? Why did I have someone for business? Why am I now helping people with careers? It's, you know, kind of helping someone realize this potential they have within themselves. Helping them unlock that, unlock that person's potential [00:16:00] to maximize and be the best version of themselves. That's what I think coaching is.


So for me, we talked about this earlier, there are only so many hours of the day, so I want someone who can guide me without telling me exactly what to do. You know, maybe I already know the steps that I need to take but I can't do that extra mental load of am I taking the steps in the right order? Am I thinking too much internally? You know, am I thinking through the things I should think about? Am I reflecting on the right things?


So kind of helping weather when it's coming to me, when someone is coaching me my health coach, I meet with him weekly, we talk about me as a whole, as an individual, all the different aspects that make me for my health. Whether it's spiritually, sleep and stress. [00:17:00] What I'm eating. Am I getting my exercise? All of those things, right? It's a whole component of things that make me, me. Taking that dedicated time to have that reflection through the coaching, gets me motivated, and I have that accountability. That's why I have a health coach.


With a business coach, you could say the same thing. That accountability of here is what, you know, when you're trying to build a business. It's not A to Z. There are many steps right? You're spoken to entrepreneurs on your podcast before, you know there are many steps many things you have to think about when it comes to hiring or you know, what to do, who to turn to, a lot of things to think about and just kind of helping unlock that potential, decide what it is that person needs to do and kind of reflect and make sure the correct paths are taken and you're not overthinking things, I think that's, that's the purpose and, and I love it, I [00:18:00] love doing that. And I've really found a lot of joy personally being a coach while being coached.


Eric: Yeah. And you probably find that you can't do it alone or you really shouldn't try to do it alone. You need someone there to show you and mentor you and you might hear the term thrown around those of you listening a self-made man or woman. And I think in the conversations I've had with people on this show thus far you can really see how that is? Just not a thing, even, I mean, everyone has had a mentor at some point in their life and I think you touched on a perfectly there, Janan in terms of why you should have a coach and how you can just use that person to reach your full potential. And I want to ask you building off of that full potential. Like what would you define that as for someone or what what is your true definition of what would make someone be the most successful that they could be?


Janan: That's a perfect question and you know I think about that all the time is what is success? Is success defined on someone's ability to, you know, accomplish something? [00:19:00] Is it earning a certain amount of money? Is it getting a certain position? Is it, you know, what is it? And I think the true answer to that because I'm, as I've been reflecting on it is, it depends on that person. Everyone, you know, has their different limit, or their different goal for success. I know people that have, you know, colleagues of mine, whether they’re pharmacist or there's that, you know, they feel successful, they don't, they're fine with the status quo there. Their success is not measured by what next promotion, they're going to get, whereas there's others that are extremely driven, and they're hoping to get this next; hether it's a promotion or an award or, you know, the next new challenge.


So, you know, you can kind of hear my description is that success is defined I would say by the individual. For me. You can also say that you can define it on a day-to-day [00:20:00] basis or you know. So for me, I can say at the end of today, I could look at how did today, go was today, successful? You know, did what I set out for me? My definition of success is if I am hoping to get something done, whether you now if you think back to my GTD or because I'm balancing a lot, is it even just getting things done? With COVID-19 I mentioned, I have kids. Other mothers may say success today was just, my children are alive, we’re all fed, we’re well, right? So success also fluctuates depending on the situation, right? But when it comes to career, you know that's the whole point of success and potential when it comes to coaching, it also depends on the type of coaching, and that's why I kind of describe it there are different forms of coaching, you know, again, if I speak about health coaching for a minute, I will define success [00:21:00] that I had a successful. You know, I've reached my goals with health coaching if I have reached what I was trying to accomplish. And so, you know, for me, I will be honest to say that I don't always make it a priority in my GTD list of things to do to work out.


So my goal of why I hired a career coach was can I find this motivation or accountability person coach to inspire me to work out on, you know, whether it's a daily basis or X number of times a week. That's my definition of success. If that week, I did accomplish that goal. Whereas, there are some other abstract things, you know, so there's subjective goals, they’re objective goals, but yeah, I know that's a loaded answer. But I think to suffice it to say, I think success can mean a lot of things and it's a good thing to reflect on, for sure.


Eric: Yeah. No Janan, that's a great [00:22:00] answer. I think that it, it really inspires to think about the fact that success could be changing on a day-to-day basis. I could be successful one day simply because I made my bed in the morning, and I could be successful the next day because I got promoted or, you know, it can be subjective and it should, it should make people listening, think that just don't get discouraged. I mean, you got to take these small steps to progress.


And as you, you look at Janan’s career. I mean she didn't start off doing all the things she's doing in one day, it was a slow process, and you know some were I'm sure faster than others for you but, so Janan now that we know what success is and how it can be a variety of different things, I really want to explain to you what, what my purpose was in starting this podcast. So the backbone of the show is to explore what makes any successful person's inner clock tick so variety of people can have different definitions of what success is. But what is the one single driving force for you that keeps your inner clock ticking towards that success? Whatever it might be?


Janan: My answer [00:23:00] to that is I love the challenge and the driving motivation is to be, you know, we said having that potential. I believe we all have the potential to make our habits, the best that they can be, and we can always improve. So trying to improve myself in every aspect that I can, that's what drives me.


If you hear really quickly to share that’s habits are our automatic behaviors, right? And I don't know if you knew this but about half of what we do every day is based on what our habit is. And you know, people have good and bad habits and you can change them, and so that's my goal. That's what drives me. How do I create efficient, effective, successful habits and have commitment to action to continue to take me to what I define as success.


Eric: [00:24:00] So Janan, we know that success the definition of that term can vary for different people. There's certain good habits that can progress you towards your goals, and there's bad habits that can prevent you from reaching those goals. Do you have any tips for the audience members listening, who want to build more good habits and facilitate that success? And also on the converse side of that to help break some of those bad habits that they might have?


Janan: Absolutely. I think the best thing to do is look at identifying, what habits that you want to gain in yourself. I shared the statement earlier, I am the person who is blank. So, again, whether maybe we can talk about my example, I'm the person who works out every day. So that's the example. The quick steps of the tactics of how to get there. Start small, make what your habit that you're trying to get make it really easy, make it obvious, make your habit attractive. [00:25:00] Make it, when you do it, you find satisfaction, and when you try to create that habit, make it so it's easy to succeed. So you know the really easy thing to think about is that if someone's goal is to start, you know, they've never for me, I've never weight lifted a lot of weight. I can't start and say my habit or the next thing I'm going to do is weight lift, you know, 500 pounds, that's hard to do.


So you heard me that like make it easy, so, make it so that you can actually accomplish it. Once, you start small, you build up to that. And so, that's the, the way to kind of overall, build a good habit and the opposite of making, you know, to get rid of a bad habit is to do the inverse, make it really hard to do that bad habit. Make your bad habit unattractive, unsatisfying, [00:26:00] make it so that it's not obvious for you to choose the option of the bad habit. So maybe some people are like oh junk food. I'm really, you know, it's a bad habit that I will binge on junk food at the end of the day. Well, the way to do it, is make the junk food not as easy to attain, don't make it attractive. You know, all those things that you can do, and a great book that I would like to recommend for your guests is Atomic Habits. It's by James Clear, and it's a very good book to help you build good habits and eliminate bad habits.


Eric: That's a great book recommendation, and that's actually Janan that's on my list to read. I haven't read that one yet, surprisingly, but I know I've had colleagues and friends recommend it and say they've really enjoyed it. So, appreciate you mentioning that, definitely going to be on my to-read list. And it just got me thinking. And for those of you audience members, who are maybe new to the show, if this is your first time listening, or if you've listened for a little while, we're on episode 13 [00:27:00] here, but episode 4 talked about setting goals and tracking progress, and if you listen to that one, you will have heard that Janan touched on some similar themes that I hit in that, and really it boils down to just that small daily when that you can give yourself in the beginning, I think is really helpful at least for me. It ties in well.


Janan: Yes, for sure.


Eric: So another piece that I'm interested in. So you said that you’re mother, you have, you have three children? Is that correct?

Janan: Yes. Three little girls.


Eric: Wow!


Janan: Yeah, so it's a busy household.


Eric: Yeah. That it makes me think of work-life balance. So, you know, you can build these good habits and try to break these bad habits, but how do you know when you're maybe taking on too much? Or if you I mean it like you said earlier, there's a limited amount of time in the day, I certainly don't want to become really successful in my career and day-job so to speak and then lose track of, you know, my loved ones and family and friends. So how do we how do we search for that [00:28:00] work-life balance? Or how do you do that being a mother of three?


Janan: Yes. So I mean my greatest, greatest accomplishment or achievement is my family. I really take pride in having three, those three girls, they're healthy, they're intelligent, they're curious, they love exploring. So when I think about and look at my to do list, you know that we talked About earlier today. On that, I have to have family, spirituality, you know, all of these things. Those are very important and high on my list, right? And I think when you say how to balance it. Putting things that are your priority on your priority list are that's the first place to start.


Eric: Okay.


Janan: The next place to reflect is you said earlier that you know everyone has had a mentor or someone to support you along the way. It truly does take a village. You know, I'm not doing this on my own. I have a very incredibly supportive [00:29:00] partner, my husband. We have a nanny who comes to our home even though I'm working from home. A lot of people, you know, here they're like, oh you work from home, it must be so easy to, you know, watch your kids and do everything, and I'm sure I could if I wanted the television or a device to be their babysitter. But, you know, again, the priority I have for them is we found someone that really does care for them, we know this person very well has become just you know, like part of our family, and so I think that balance it's very important to have the support and the village that everyone talks about. It's impossible on your own.


Eric: Yeah just goes back to that self-made man or woman analogy and just the fact that that really isn't a thing, and you know you're experiencing coaching and mentoring by being a mother. And I think that that I am not yet a parent. I hope to be at some point soon, my fiancé [00:30:00] actually just got engaged last December. So we haven't, haven't had the wedding yet. But at some point, hope to have kids and be a parent. And are you raising three little entrepreneur girls there?


Janan: You know, I mentioned, they're curious, they love exploring they’re, you know, I'll admit their ages are the eldest is five, the middle daughter is three and a half, and the youngest is two. So you know we're working on things but I think it's a joy to see them learn new things and to be able to be there like you're saying while their understanding, and understanding what I do, respecting my time and also knowing that when I'm not with them I do have boundaries. You ask about balance. I will close my laptop. I have dedicated time. If I'm with them, you know, I do not have my phone out. I'm not you know texting and messaging and working with clients when I'm in their presence. I have those [00:31:00] boundaries and the respect for them so that I can give them the attention and the love that they need. And I think women can do it all. Other women entrepreneurs out there or potential entrepreneurs, you can do it, but you do have to balance, you know. I do, I will say for every thing that you will say yes to, just remember there will be times that you have to say no, and so for me it has meant, okay maybe if I am taking this new position of a new idea, and I'm always looking for other fun hobbies or things, you know, and it can take time, right?


Eric: Yeah.


Janan: What I have justified of, okay, if I'm doing something that does bring some sort of income in, then my way of coping with instead of taking time away from the children, I will use the money that we, my husband, and I, we've earned [00:32:00] and say, okay, now I'm going to outsource this thing that I don't love doing, maybe it's cleaning or maybe it's something that would have taken my time, right? So I'm just swapping that out that, okay, I'm getting this money and that's what I'm going to put it towards. So trying to do the yes/no. You got to say no to something, well I'm saying no to some housework.


Eric: Yeah.


Janan: And and saying yes to using that money towards that. So truly, there's ways to make it work and I just wanted to share that.


Eric: Yeah, no, that's super helpful, and that really what motivates me to be successful is I want to obtain that financial freedom to like you just said, I mean use some monetary, you know, wins that you've had to take some pressure off yourself and you know, outsource some of those other things to give yourself more time because I think at the end of the day, time is what's most valuable to all of us, and in my opinion money you know I mean that's great but the reason I would like it, so I can get more time to do the things that I want to do.


Janan: Yeah, that's the greatest irony of all that I want to [00:33:00] do all the things that I'm doing and want to continue to do more to spend more time with the children.


Eric: Yeah.


Janan: Yet, the time that I need to spend is now great while they're young. Because in a few years, they'll be busy with school with their own lives. That's right. It's they grow up in an instant. So it's a great irony. I don't have the answer to that yet, but I think that yeah, use the efficiencies you have. I mean, COVID-19 supported that a lot. Going to the grocery store. Nope. No. I'm gonna just do order to come to our home, you know. Things like that.


Eric: Yeah, certain things that make it a little easier on ya, and as we close as we wrap up this interview, Janan, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time away from your family to do this podcast and spend some time with me and help teach people listening, you know, that you can do it and the certain types of things that you can do to build habits. And I think it's been really helpful to hear those types of advice. So I really appreciate that.


Janan: Thank you for having [00:34:00] me really made me reflect on, a lot of great memories, and I hope this is helpful to anyone out there listening. Thanks again.


Eric: Yeah, of course and one more question. So let's bring it home here. So we're both pharmacists, we've had a lot to do with COVID-19 here in terms of the pandemic and pharmacy is in the forefront of the news, and I have a burning question for you. Is there one myth that you would like to debunk about pharmacy specifically on the show here.


Janan: Sure. I mean I'm kind of a definition of it, but you don't have to be counting pills to be a pharmacist. You can end up in a number of career paths. In fact, something I didn't mention I'm working on a book with Alex Barker, the founder of The Happy PharmD, and it's the book is actually called Potential. I use that word a lot, but potential, and it talks about over 50 different career paths. That's the part I'm working on. 50 paths [00:35:00] that someone can have with a PharmD that you can end up doing with a PharmD, legitimate career avenues. So that's the biggest myth that you're going to end up in a Walgreens store or a hospital. There are many things that people don't think about right away or know about, but there are a lot of options out there for pharmacists.


Eric: Yeah, that’s phenomenal. And any pharmacy students, any pharmacists listening, I know when I was in pharmacy school, it sometimes seems like you're kind of bottleneck down. You have either retail or hospital or maybe industry or some type of, you know, different, you know, Avenue there. But, but Janan touched on it perfectly there, you can do it, and there's a lot of avenues out there for you and just got to go get it. Get things done.


Janan: Yes, thanks Eric, that’s right.


Eric: Janan, thank you so much for being on. Can't thank you enough. Really appreciate it, and we'll talk to you soon. Best of luck with the book.


Janan: Thanks. Bye.


Eric: See you later.


[EDM music fades-in, plays and then fades-out]



Voice audio: Written, produced and edited by Eric R. Mueller

EDM music: Produced and edited by Eric R. Mueller

bottom of page